Myanmar artists in Paris
By Ian Tee

This article is a part of CHECK-IN 2024, our annual publication, which comes in at 313 pages this year. You can buy a limited-edition print copy at SGD38 here.

Midpoint is a monthly series that invites established Southeast Asian contemporary artists to take stock of their career thus far, reflect upon generational shifts and consider the advantages and challenges of working in the present day. It is part of A&M Dialogues and builds upon the popular Fresh Faces series.

Nge Lay and Aung Ko are Burmese artists whose practices speak to the socio-economic conditions of contemporary Myanmar. They are known for their installation and performance works which explore the themes of censorship, injustice and memory. Though the couple maintains individual artistic practices, they worked together on a few key projects, such as the Thuyédan Village Art Project (2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2013), where they invited artists to collaborate with the villages to create site-specific artworks and performances. Their works have been presented in numerous solo and group shows around the world. Recently, Nge Lay participated in documenta fifteen (2022), Yeosu International Art Festival (2021), Jogja Art Biennale (2019). Aung Ko’s key exhibitions include documenta fifteen (2022), 4th Fukuoka Asian Art Triennale (2009), and the Singapore Biennale (2008), among others.

I would like to start the interview by asking about your move to Paris in 2022. From what I understand, initially you took up a residency at Musée d'Art Contemporain du Val-de-Marne and La Cité des Arts in Paris. And now, you are pursuing a Master's degree at Beaux Arts de Paris. Could you talk about the last two years and how you are processing this period of transition?

We arrived in France at the end of August 2021, after enduring six months of military coup in our home country. Upon our arrival, we learned that Musée d’Art Contemporain du Val-de-Marne (MAC VAL) was was hosting a one-year artist residency programme. Unfortunately, Nge Lay’s mom passed away during our flight from Dubai to France on that very same day. We experienced both good and bad things simultaneously. We had to leave our family and friends behind in Myanmar during the worst situation, which was the most sorrowful thing for me.

However, the good thing was that Sa Sa Art Projects invited us to participate in a group show at documenta fifteen. We were also invited to be in other shows in France, which was great news for both of us. Gallery A2Z hosted our individual solo exhibitions in 2022 and 2023. And we had the opportunity to pursue a Master’s degree at Beaux-Arts de Paris (école nationale supérieure des Beaux-Arts) in 2022.

Unfortunately, our country is currently facing challenging circumstances, including political and civil unrest, as well as the Delta variant of COVID-19. Our mental state has been affected by these events, leaving us feeling fragile, without peace, happiness, or hope. However, we cannot afford to stop moving forward. We have a daughter named Dahlia and future generations from Myanmar to consider, so we need to prepare ourselves and gather strength for what lies ahead. That is why we have continued to create, even when we have felt lost and sad during these difficult years.

Nge Lay, ‘Beautifully Thorned Path’, 2023, exhibition view in ‘Dislocations’, Palais de Tokyo, Paris, 2024. Image courtesy of the artist.

Meeting with the Palais de Tokyo curatorial team, at Cité des Internationale Arts studio. Photo by Dahlia.

Nge Lay, you are participating in a group show at Palais de Tokyo titled ‘Dislocations’, curated by Marie-Laure Bernadac and Daria de Beauvais. Could you describe your work in the show? How was the experience working with the curators on this project, and what types of discussions did you have with them?

Nge Lay (NL): My work titled ‘Beautifully Thorned Path’ (2023) is from an ongoing project created with found objects. I showed it in my solo show in November 2023. The curators visited my exhibition and selected this sculpture for exhibition. It has been an incredibly good experience working with them. Their expertise and vision, as well as our discussions, have provided me with a sense of freedom and an open-minded approach. I would like to note that many of the artists who participated in this show are in a similar situation of the experience of exile, and some of them are our friends whom we often speak with.

‘Beautifully Thorned Parth’ represents migrant life all around the world. We worked hard to become artists in Myanmar, and we struggled to build a life through hard work while attempting to acquire our own flat in the country for over ten years. When we finally had our own flat, it brought me joy. I had many dreams for our home and future with Dahlia. However, they all vanished when the military coup occurred in Myanmar on 1 February 2021. Many civilians were forced to leave their original residences and seek refuge elsewhere. I was compelled to leave my home country during a coup that lasted several months. It was not an easy journey, and there were numerous challenges to overcome. Yet, I believed it was a safer path for Dahlia and for the freedom of art and everything else. We had neither anticipated nor planned to become migrants in our lives before the coup.

The life of an unplanned migrant is terrible. We are safe, but we have to reset our lives entirely. We wonder if we can continue living as full-time artists like before, and have a peaceful life in the future. Nevertheless, I must contend with considerable uncertainty, anxiety, stress, and unexpected decisions, and we are striving to live day by day, and adjust to this displacement. Today, many countries face conflict, wars, civil unrest, climate change etc. People have various reasons to leave their birthplaces, even if they do not desire relocation. I empathise with this sentiment and understand how complex life can be for migrants, whether inside or outside their place of origin. This piece of art represents me and all migrants worldwide. The golden fabric border symbolises a brighter hope and the identity of Burmese migrants. The central part embodies our recent lives. The stitches attempt to connect our past with our present, our wounded souls with our icons.

You are also a part of ‘When Solidarity Is Not A Metaphor’ (2024), curated by Natasa Petresin-Bachelez and organised by Alserkal Initiatives in partnership with Cité Internationale des Arts. The exhibition features artists who were involved in programmes at either of the two institutions in Dubai and Paris. Could you talk about your work in the exhibition and your feelings looking at it today?

NL: I have mixed feelings. I enjoyed participating in this project. Natasa's well organised conversation programme made us understand the feelings of all of the participants intimately. We come from different countries, different religions, different problems but we are the witnesses and sufferers of war. We found solidarity and it can make a strong voice.

My artwork in this exhibition was created at the end of 2021. This sculpture was made using Chin minority traditional longyi and represents the women who bravely gave their life in this revolution fighting for the freedom from it Chin state. I made three pieces in the series and each sculpture represents the women who participated in the Spring revolution in Myanmar. The works were first shown at L’abbaye de Neimënster, in an exhibition organised by the French Institute Luxembourg, Centre Culturel de Rencontre Abbaye de Neumünster, and Intersections Gallery from Singapore.

Aung Ko, ‘Aung Ko’s Village’, 2011, exhibition view at Esplanade Concourse, Singapore. Image courtesy of the artist.

Nge Lay, ‘The Sick Classroom’, 2013, wooden, mixed media, two-channel video, photographs. Installation view in Singapore Biennale 2013, Singapore Art Museum. Image courtesy of the artist.

Looking back, could you share a decision or event that marked a significant turn/moment in your path as an artist?

When we, the 1980s generation, decided to become artists, we faced many challenges. Traditional thinking and family values were not conducive to pursuing a career in the arts. Our relatives were often unhappy with our choice, as they believed that success was uncertain in this field. However, we chose to take this path despite the obstacles. The younger generations in the 1990s and 2000s have had more freedom in pursuing their passions due to changes in politics and education.

When have been milestone achievements for you as artists, and why have they been particularly memorable? This could relate to goals you set out to achieve, recognition at home/abroad through a particular exhibition/publication etc.

AK: I consider my solo exhibition 'Aung Ko's Village' at the Esplanade Jendela (Visual Art Space) from 13 May to 3 July 2011 as a memorable experience that has supported my artistic career. The installation for this exhibition measured 13 metres wide and 7 metres deep and was part of my Thuyédan Village Art Project, initiated in my village home town in Myanmar in 2007. This installation is important for me and for my country, but it has not received much attention and and has been hidden from the artist’s community in Myanmar, which saddens me.

NL: I have many memories of being supported as an artist, especially when I had the chance to participate in ‘TRANSPORTASIAN: Visions of Contemporary Photography from Southeast Asia’ (2009). The Singapore Art Museum collected my work, which gave me strength and helped me to continue on my path. I also had a successful installation showcased at the Singapore Biennale 2013, called ‘The Sick Classroom’. I worked on this project by myself and it took a lot of time to research the education system in Myanmar, especially in rural areas. I started preparing for the project in 2005 and then worked on it from 2010 to 2013. I conducted research at eight elementary schools, including Thuyédan village and nearby areas. I am satisfied with ‘The Sick Classroom’ and also provided help to the villagers well during the course of this project.

Group photo of participating artists and villagers in the 2010 edition of Thuyédan Village Art Project, taken outside Aung Ko’s parents’ house, Thuyédan village, Myanmar. Image courtesy of the Aung Ko and Nge Lay.

You founded the Thuyédan Village Art Project, in your home village in Northern Myanmar. Can you talk about the context of Myanmar contemporary art at that time and why you initiated the project?

AK: Nge Lay and I started the Thuyédan Village Art Project in 2005 in my hometown. However, there is no evidence of the early days of this project since we did not have a camera to record it. Nevertheless, all villagers know this project well. In the beginning, it was just us making our artworks. This project was challenging and risky because my village is near a military-restricted zone. The military prohibits people from getting too close to that area, especially with a camera. Additionally, they do not allow foreigners to enter.

Therefore, we decided to invite local artists to start an art event. We started organising and inviting Myanmar artists from 2007 onwards. We used our own budget to avoid any misunderstandings between us and the other artists or villagers. We also wanted to be transparent about money. I created several styles of paintings for selling, and Nge Lay designed jewellery to fund the art events. We decided not to apply for grants for any of Thuyédan Village Art Project events. So, there was a year when we could not do something because we did not have enough budget for it. Some of the artists who participated have now gained recognition in the contemporary art field.

How long did the Thuyédan Village Art Project last? And how did it influence your artistic practices?

We successfully organised five events as part of the Thuyédan Village Art Project in 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2013. In 2008, we were unable to conduct an event due to the devastating Cyclone Nargis that hit Myanmar. We suffered significant losses as a result of this natural disaster. We lost everything and faced financial crisis, so we had to pause the project.

We allocated our own budgets for accommodation, food, and other necessary materials for the event. We also facilitated meetings and collaborations with local villagers and travelled around these areas. However, we were unable to support production material fees and travel costs to artists. If any artist was able to use their own resources, we provided them with the necessary assistance. All participating artists were given the freedom to create as they wished.

During that time, it was difficult to organise events in Yangon due to the lack of freedom to do so. If we wanted to have an exhibition during that period, we had to pass through the state’s censorship board. If our exhibition was rejected, we could not show it to the public. Artworks could be destroyed, we might get arrested or investigated. If artists wanted the freedom to exhibit, they had to connect with foreign embassies or art centres such as Alliance Française or the American Art Center. Therefore, our village art project was conducted quite far from the capital city and could be done openly. It was a good opportunity for us. Artists could create performances, large-scale installations, land art, videos, photographs, workshops with villagers, outdoor screenings, outdoor paintings, and sculptures. They kept the documentation and artworks themselves, and exhibited them outside the country when they had the opportunity. Some famous artworks were created and became well-known because of the Thuyédan Village Art Project.

In 2013, we were invited by Khairuddin Hori and Naomi Wang, who were then curators from Singapore Art Museum (SAM) for Singapore Biennale 2013. At the same time, Nathalie Johnston, curator and founder of MYANM/ART gallery, visited our village and participated in the project. They were the first foreign curators to visit our area for the project. It was a historic moment for the local villagers as well to be able to extend their hospitality to these esteemed guests. Khairuddin, Naomi and Natalie assisted us in conducting research for the Singapore Biennale, as well as Nge Lay’s project. This was the most memorable experience for us.

Aung Ko and Nge Lay sitting inside their installation ‘The Other Wall’ (2019), presented as part of National Gallery Singapore’s Children Biennale 2019, ‘Embracing World’. Image courtesy of National Gallery Singapore.

While both of you have individual practices, you have also created artworks collaboratively. One of them is ‘The Other Wall’ (2019), an installation presented at the National Gallery Singapore’s Children Biennale 2019 ‘Embracing World’. How do you decide when to work collaboratively? Is the process different or do you have unique considerations when working as a pair?

‘The Other Wall’ was an installation presented at the National Gallery Singapore for the Children's Biennale 2019. This was our first collective artwork. We had not collaborated much before this because our thinking and creations were not similar. However, we respect each other's work.

Dahlia was four years old when we were producing ‘The Other Wall’. We used to read traditional Burmese folk tales and stories in children's magazines from our childhood to her at bedtime. We started doing this when Nge Lay was pregnant. For ‘The Other Wall’, we recreated the stories we read to Dahlia and used the Burmese alphabet for interactive elements which the kids could play with. At the same time, the children visiting the exhibition could listen to the stories in two languages.

Aung Ko and Nge Lay’s working space at Palais de Tokyo, La Friche residency programme, 2024. Image courtesy of the artists.

Could you describe your studio/workspace? How has it evolved over the years? What do you enjoy about it, and what do you wish to improve?

From 2021 to 2022, we worked in our studio at MAC VAL, then from our Cité Internationale des Arts and Beaux-Arts de Paris studios from 2022 to 2024. Currently, we are answering your questions from the Palais de Tokyo, La Friche residency studio. We work everywhere and everyday…

What has become easier or more difficult to do as time has gone by?

Our life in Paris is not easy. Physically, we are free, but mentally, we are not. We miss our country every day and we do not forget what is happening there. We have trouble sleeping and relaxing due to the different culture, language, politics, education, arts, and healthcare system. Everything is a challenge, but we never give up. We keep going, and work even harder than before.

Aung Ko, ‘Hum… m…m’, 2007, documentation of performance and installation at Ayeyarwady River, Thuyédan village, Myanmar. Image courtesy of the artist. — Aung Ko, ‘Hum… m…m’, 2007, documentation of performance and installation at Ayeyarwaddy River, Thuyédan village, Myanmar. Image courtesy of the artist.

Villagers and artists preparing for Nge Lay’s site specific installation and performance ‘Request to the life’ (2007), at the west bank of Ayeyarwady River, Thuyédan village, Myanmar. Image courtesy of the artist. — Villagers and artists preparing for Nge Lay’s site specific installation and performance ‘Request to the life’ (2007), at the west bank of Ayeyarwaddy River, Thuyédan village, Myanmar. Image courtesy of the artist.

Has your purpose remained steadfast or evolved over the years?

Honestly, our purpose is to work towards creating the best possible future based on our current circumstances. We strive to contribute positively to our society and make a meaningful impact in any way as best as we can.

Are there any upcoming exhibitions/projects you wish to share?

Recently, Nge Lay participated in ‘Autohistorias’, a group exhibition at Beaux-Arts de Paris, from 24 April to 30 June 2024. We will be participating in another group exhibition in November 2024 at The Museum of the History of Immigration, located in the Palais de la Porte Dorée. The exhibition is curated by Jean de Loisy and Raphael Giannesini. Our individual works will focus in the migrant community in Paris.

And finally, what would be a key piece of advice to young art practitioners? What has been a way of working, a certain kind of attitude etc. they can learn from to apply to their own careers?

Nowadays, the younger generation is highly interested in technology and possesses great intelligence. As a result, there is not much necessity to instruct them on things. It is crucial that they comprehend the dynamic nature of history and experiences. Honesty and the freedom of creativity can pave the way towards a brighter future.

This article is a part of CHECK-IN 2024, our annual publication, which comes in at 313 pages this year. You can buy a limited-edition print copy at SGD38 here.

Access the full Midpoint series here.